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Òåìà: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 29.08.2005 18:09 |
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îñâîèë òðàäèøíë - íå õî÷ó áîëüøå ìàò÷åò ãðèïîì èãðàòÜ! ïðè âñåé íåïåðñïåêòèâíîñòè òðàäèøíëà - èáî åùå â 70-õ ïî ðåçóëüòàòàì èññëåäîâàíèé ïðè èãðå òðàäèøíëîì ó÷àñòâóþò 4 ìûøöû, à ìàò÷åä - 13 âîò îðèãèíàë ñòàòüè: WHY I BELIEVE MATCHED GRIP IS SUPERIOR by Rick Beckham My junior high band director, Mr. Frank Adams, taught me matched grip in his beginner band. I was aware of traditional grip, watching set drummers on TV every so often, but didn't really give a hoot about one grip or the other. Eventually I started competing with other drummers, auditioning for spots in regional or state wide concert bands. The auditions usually consisted of sight reading, opening and closing a rudiment or two, and sometimes playing a prepared piece of music, either a solo of the performer's choice or a selection picked by the judges and sent to the performers in advance. For sight reading I noticed a traditional grip player's concentration was divided three ways, reading the rhythms and dynamics, maintaining a firm and controlled grip with the left hand, and playing with a balanced sound. With matched grip I could concentrate almost entirely on reading the selection. Opening and closing rudiments seemed to cause physical pain for the traditional grip players, particularly in the left hand. Breaking down rudiments with matched grip never caused me any pain. At worst a mild discomfort ensued when controlling the evenness of the acceleration/deceleration near and at my fastest speeds. I even noticed differences between myself and my traditional grip peers with the prepared selection part of the audition. I played with more dynamic range between extreme volume levels. In 1976 I read an article in 'The Ludwig Drummer' magazine, written by Mitch Markovitch, entitled "Matched Grip: Riding the Wave of the Future". This article shed light on the difficulties inherent with traditional grip. The major point the article made was that matched grip uses thirteen muscles for an up/down stroke, whereas the traditional left uses four. Thirteen muscles versus four. That's quite a difference considering the hand that will use just four muscles is the 'weak' hand for the majority of the population. Mitch's article also compared the traditional grip with learning to walk evenly with a combat boot on one foot and a tennis shoe on the other. It can be done, but valuable practice time is spent acquiring the talent. Matched grip starts with the premise that if both hands are the same a more balanced sound will be the result. Although I learned matched first I also trained several seasons with traditional grip, and continue to practice traditional grip. I'd like to expand on Mitch's article with observations I've made contrasting the two grips. When I train with matched grip the major muscle that develops is the tricep muscle. With traditional grip the major muscle in the left hand that develops is the bicep. The tricep is a push muscle and the bicep is a pull muscle. Push muscles are stronger than pull muscles (try pushing a car and then pull it). Matched grip allows more contact between the hand and the stick. The stick is gripped in much the same way one grips a barbell, a football, or even someone's hand when you shake hands. This grip is natural and quite strong, and the strength of the grip can be increased with exercise. The top of the hand is above the stick which allows a simple and powerful way to propel the stick. Simple because it is an up/down motion; powerful because the entire arm pushes the stick toward the playing surface. Matched grip allows the wrist to bend naturally at the wrist joint which helps relieve arm tension. The middle, ring, and pinky fingers curl under the stick to help maintain a strong grip allowing better control (the fingers can tighten or relax). A better fulcrum is achieved with matched grip because the middle finger is under the stick near the balance point. Pivoting the stick is actually aided by the middle, ring, and pinky fingers as they push the back of the stick toward the palm forcing the bead downward. All components of the arm work together for a downstroke. The arm pushes the stick down, the wrist bends right before impact to add additional power and to help relieve arm tension, and the fingers tighten or relax, depending on the situation, to guide/control the stick. The grip used by the left hand of traditional grip is unnatural; it is not a grip developed by everyday activities. Thus the beginner will enter uncharted motor skill territory with traditional grip. Muscle differences and unfamiliar grip means a beginner's left hand will require more attention. Even seasoned traditional grip players admit spending extra time on the left hand. The right hand will never reach full potential due to the left constantly trailing behind in training. The traditional grip left hand has two motions to propel the stick: the up/down motion used for rolls and diddles, and the turning motion sometimes used for singles and accents. The turning motion resembles the motion of the arm when one turns a doorknob. The muscles used for the turning motion are very weak, and the player must constantly adjust while switching from one motion to the other. Most of the left hand is under the stick, the back of the hand lends no power to the downstroke. There is very little wrist movement to alleviate wrist and arm tension. Little wrist movement also implies less arm flexibility; the arm motions are stiff which increases upper arm tension. There is less finger contact on the stick in the left hand. The fingers grip the stick but play a minimal role in controlling the stick. The stick rests on the side of the ring finger close to the bone and knuckle, which will absorb a portion of the impact when striking the playing surface. This can cause some degree of pain, and makes for a less than adequate pivot. The arm, wrist, and fingers of a left hand downstroke does not move as fluidly, in conjunction with one another, as a downstroke of matched grip. From a visual standpoint there is no question that traditional looks better. I believe this has to do with the visual contrast between the left and right hands. Matched grip looks boring, but in my opinion is more functional for power and control. Matched grip is easier for beginners to learn for two reasons: strengths and flaws between each hand can be compared, and concentration is not divided with two styles. A matched grip player will need to strengthen the weak hand, but he/she is not handicapped by muscle or motor skill differences. Players should be versatile enough to use both grips, but traditional grip should be taught only after a student has partially mastered matched. The major reason: it is harder to retrain the left arm to be flexible, to bend at the wrist, than it is to play with locked joints having already learned flexibility. Matched grip should be used whenever a player wants to maximize power and control. ................................ ................................... èáàíóöî!! ! ÷òî ìíå äåëàòü? äî êó÷è åùå õèëäàóíîì èãðàòü è ïåïåòñ! |
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 29.08.2005 18:29 |
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à ìîæíî ïî-ðóññêè êðàòåíüêîå ðåçþìå? â ëîì âñå ýòî ÷èòàòü... | |
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Things you own, own you
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 29.08.2005 18:29 |
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êîðî÷å òîïèê äëÿ îáñóæäåíèÿ çàìêîâ, òàê êàê âî âñåì ìèðå åùå ñ 40-õ øëè ñïîðû î êëàñè÷åñêîì çõàõâàòå è ïàðàëëåëüíîì... | |
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 29.08.2005 18:31 |
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íó âêðàòöå âñå â ìîåì 1 ñîîáùåíèèè : êëàññè÷ ïðîòèâ ïàðàëëåëüíîãî. ÷èñòî òåîðåòè÷åñêè ïàðàëëåëüíûé ïîáåæäàåò... |
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 29.08.2005 18:33 |
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è ÷î? | |
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Ãðîìêî - çíà÷èò õîðîøî! (ñ)Íåçíàéêà
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 29.08.2005 18:38 |
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Ïèòåðáóðõ Fender Mexico Fat Strat. 
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Ïî ìîåìó ýòî âñå íà ëþáèòåëÿ. Êîìó êàê óäîáíåå, òîò òàê è èãðàåò. | |
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 29.08.2005 18:40 |
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íó êàê ×Î??? êòî ïåðñïåêòèâíåå òî? êëàñè÷åñêèé èëè ïàðàëåëüíûé? âîïðîñ æèâîòðåïåùóùèé!!! | |
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 29.08.2005 18:41 |
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ïåðïåíäèêóëÿðíûé, íà ìîé âçãëÿä... ëó÷øåá ñîëÿê ñâîé âûëîæèë, ñêðîìíÿãà... | |
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Ãðîìêî - çíà÷èò õîðîøî! (ñ)Íåçíàéêà
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 29.08.2005 18:44 |
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à ëó÷øå âîîáùå íå èãðàòü, à ïèâî ôèãà÷èòü ïîä çàáîðîì 
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Things you own, own you
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 29.08.2005 18:49 |
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buzz,ÿ á ñ óäîâîëüñòâèåì òåáå ïîìîã,èëè õîòÿáû ïîñî÷óñòâîâàë,íî äåëî â òîì ÷òî ÿ íå çíàþ êàêèì ÿ çàõâàòîì èãðàþ.Òðóäíîñòåé íå èñïûòâàþ,íàâåðíî ïðàâèëüíî çàõâàòûâàþ.Õîòÿ êóé åãî íå çíàåò. | |
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 29.08.2005 19:00 |
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Ïèòåðáóðõ Fender Mexico Fat Strat.
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2Áàðàáàíùèê Ïîä. Ïîñìîòðè çäåñü http://drums.ru/play/bp1.html - ýòî êëàññè÷åñêàÿ ïîñòàíîâêà. À ïàðàëëåëüíàÿ, êîãäà îáå ðóêè äåðæàò ïàëêè îäèíàêîâî. |
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 29.08.2005 19:15 |
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Ìîñêâà áàðàáàííûå ïàëî÷êè 
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2Áàçç: Êàæåòñÿ ìíå, ÷òî íå â çàõâàòå äåëî. Íðàâèòñÿ òåáå èãðàòü òàê, êàê òåáå óäîáíî? - èãðàé! Èãðàòü íàäî òàê, ÷òîáû íå çàäóìûâàòüñÿ êàêèì çàõâàòîì èãðàòü, à ÷òîáû íå çàäóìûâàòüñÿ, â ïðèíöèïå. ÈÌÕÎ 
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ïàëêîõâàòêèå ðóêè, ïåäàëåñèëüíûå íîãè è ìåòðîíîì
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 29.08.2005 19:16 |
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ÀÀÀÀ!Ïîíßë!Òîêà â êàêîéòî äðåâíåé "Øêîëå èãðû íà óäàðíûõ èíñòðóìåíòàõ" ýòî íàçûâàëîñü "íåñåììåòðè÷íàÿ ïîñòàíîâêà ðóê" è "ñèììåòðè÷íàÿ ïîñòàíîâêà ðóê" ñîîòâåòñòâåííî.Íåñèììåòðè÷íóþ ïûòàëñÿ îñâîèòü,òàê è íå îñâîèë.È íå ïîòîìó ÷òî ëåíèâûé,à ïîòîìó ÷òî à íàôèê.Ýòî óäîáíî,êîãäà ìàðøèðóåøü ñ áàðàáàíîì è îí ïîä íàêëîíîì âèñèò,à ïðè èãðå íà óñòàíîâêå ïðåèìóùåñòâ íåñèììåòðè÷íîé ÿ íå âèæó. | |
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 29.08.2005 19:24 |
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¥ ×åëÿáèíñê ¥ Ahead,Yamaha,Sabi... 
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ß íå ïðåäñòàâëÿþ ñåáå êàê ýòî íàäî óìóäðèòüñÿ ÷òîá èãðàòü äåò è ñïèä ìåòàëë êëàññè÷åñêèì çàõâàòîì!!!! | |
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 29.08.2005 20:34 |
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ïðè óìåíèè ìîæíî õîòü òðýø ñûãðàòü òðàäèöèîííûì çàõâàòîì!)) õîòÿ ïðè òðàäèöèîííîì, âðîäå, ìåëî÷è ëåã÷å âûèãðûâàòü... |
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 29.08.2005 21:21 |
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Õåðü âñå! ÿ çíàþ êàê ÿ áóäó èãðàòü - è òàê è òàê...ïðîñò ýòî íåêèé ìîòèâ äëÿ îáñóæäåíèÿ áûë!!! | |
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 29.08.2005 21:32 |
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Èç ïîêîí âåêîâ â ìèðå îáñóæäåíèÿ áûëè! âîí â 40- äàæå çà ëþäåé íå ñ÷èòàëè ïàðàëëåëüíûì çàõâàòîì êòî ïàëêè äåðæàë. âñå äæàççìåíû òóïîãîëîâíî ..ïîãîëîâíî òî åñòü ãîâîðèëè ÷òî ðàç ìîë èãðàåøü òû ìàò÷åä ãðèïîì - çíà÷èò êàçüîë è èãðàòü íå óìååø. òîëüêî â 70-å êîãäà ðîê âñïëûë è ïðî÷èå æåñòêà÷è íà÷àëàñü ñîäà ìåíÿööà. | |
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 30.08.2005 01:53 |
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ÿ òîæ ñëûøàë, ÷òî êîãäà æåñòêà÷è ïîÿâèëèñü ñîäà ðåçêî ïîìåíÿëàñü)))) | |
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 30.08.2005 02:09 |
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Âñå ïðîñòî, ïàðàëåëüíûì ÿ èãðàþ ìÿñî, ñîîòâåòñòâåííî òðàäèöèîííûì ìåäëåííûå (èëè íå î÷åíü) âåùè ãäå ìîæíî íàôèãà÷èòü ìíîãî ìèëèçìîâ... È òàê è òàê ìíå óäîáíî... Ïðîñòî ó Êëîöà çàíèìàþñü äâóìÿ çàõâàòàìè ñðàçó.... | |
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 30.08.2005 08:39 |
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Ëýíãà âèäåëè? Ïðè åãî óðîâíå òåõíèêè, äýò/ñïèä/òðýø è ïðî÷èé ýêñòðèì òðàäèöèîííûì çàõâàòîì èãðàåòñÿ íà ðàç-äâà... | |
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Òåìà: Re: ÓÆÀÑ! ×ÒÎ ÌÍÅ ÄÅËÀÒÜ?
Âðåìÿ: 30.08.2005 10:58 |
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Ïðîñòè èíòåðåñíî ìíåíèå, íî ó 80% âèäèìî ìíåíèÿ íåò íà ýòîò ñ÷åò) | |
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