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Òåìà: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 19:30 |
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Âðåìÿ àðìåéñêèõ áàðàáàíùèêîâ ïðîøëî óæå äàâíî, íî áîëüøîå êîëè÷åñòâî âåëèêèõ ìóçûêàíòîâ ïðåäïî÷èòàåò òðàäèöèîííóþ ïîç..., îé, èçâèíèòå, òðàäèöèîííûé çàìîê. Íàïðèìåð, Äîíàòè, Ñìèò, Êîëàéóòà, Ëàíã è ìíîãèå äðóãèå. Ïðè÷åì èõ ÷óòü ëè íå áîëüøå, ÷åì ñòîðîíííèêîâ ñèììåòðèè. È èãðàþò îíè íå òîëüêî äæàçççç... Ëè÷íî ÿ íå ìîãó îñîçíàòü èñòèííûõ ïðè÷èí òàêîãî ÿâëåíèÿ. Ìîæåò êòî ÷òî ñêàæåò ðàçóìíîå? |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 19:43 |
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Ìîñêâà áàðàáàíû  
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ÿ íàó÷èëñÿ èãðàòü â îáîèõ îäèíàêîâî è ÷àñòî êàê-òî ðóêà ñàìà áåð¸ò ïàëêó â òðàäèöèîííûé çàìîê...îñîáåííî íà ÷óæîé èëè íå î÷åíü óäîáíîé ïîñòàíîâêå èëè êîãäà ìåñòà ìàëî... | |
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| Àâòîð |
Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 19:45 |
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Ìîñêâà Sonor, Yamaha, Ayotte, Pearl, Sabian, Zildjian, Masterwork, etc. 
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Íèêîãäà íå çàäóìûâàëñÿ êàêèìè èìåííî ñîîáðàæåíèÿìè ðóêîâîäñòâóåòñÿ òâîÿ ðóêà êîãäà áåðåò ïàëî÷êó òðàäèöèîííî? | |
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| Àâòîð |
Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 19:47 |
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ß ñèììåòðè÷íî, íî ïûòàþñü ó÷èòüñÿ òðàäèöèîííî... Ïîòîìó ÷òî, êàê ïîñìîòðèø êàê Âýéêë êóÿ÷èò è íà÷èíàåøü ñîìíåâàòüñÿ â ïðàâèëüíîñòè ñâîåé îðèåíòàöèè:)))) |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 19:49 |
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Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
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Ñòèâ ñìèò íà âèäåî ãîâîðèò, ÷òî â ýòîì ñëó÷àå ðóêà ïîä ïàëî÷êîé, è åå âåñ íå äàâèò. ïîýòîìó çâóê áîëåå ëåãêèé âûõîäèò. | |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 19:56 |
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Ìîñêâà Sonor, Yamaha, Ayotte, Pearl, Sabian, Zildjian, Masterwork, etc.
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Íå óáåäèòåëüíî. ×åãî îí òîãäà è ïðàâîé òàê æå íå äåðæèò? | |
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| Àâòîð |
Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 20:11 |
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Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
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ïî ìàëîìó ëåâàÿ â îñíîâíîì òèõóþ ìåëî÷ü èãðàåò, à íå ïðàâàÿ. à òàê îí ïîêàçûâàåò âñÿêèå ðàçíûå âàðèàíòû çàõâàòà, ãäå äàæå â ñèììåòðè÷íîì ðóêè âûâîðà÷èâàåò òàê, ÷òî ïàëî÷êà íàä ðóêîé. â îáùåì, êòî òðàäèöèîííûì çàõâàòîì èãðàåò, èì âèäèìî òàê ïðîñòî óäîáíåé. |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 20:25 |
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Ìîñêâà áàðàáàíû
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Àëåêñåé... ÿ íå çàäóìûâàëñÿ, ÿ è òàê çíàþ  ...âñ¸ çàâèñèò îò ïîëîæåíèÿ áàðàáàíà...â çàâèñèìîñòè îò íåãî, åñëè íå ïàðèòüñÿ íàä òåõíèêîé(â ñìûñëå åñëè îíà åñòü) áûâàåò ñïîäðó÷íåå ïîèãðàòü òðàäèöèîííî, íî íå ïðèíöèïèàëüíî...åù¸ ó ìåíÿ íåò ñîòîéêè äëÿ ïýäà, è ïî ýòîìó åãî ïðèõîäèòñÿ äåðæàòü íà êîëåíÿõ...òîæå áûâàåò óäîáíî èãðàòü â êëàññèêå...à âàùå ëó÷øå íà ïðèìåðàõ ïîêàçàòü...îáúÿñíÿòü óìåþ ïëîõî...
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| Àâòîð |
Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 20:32 |
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Ìîñêâà Sonor, Yamaha, Ayotte, Pearl, Sabian, Zildjian, Masterwork, etc.
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Ñòèâ Ñìèò ìíîãî ÷åãî ëþáîïûòíîãî ïîêàçûâàåò... Íàñ÷åò ïîëîæåíèÿ áàðàáàíà: íå ïðîùå ëè åãî ïîëîæåíèå èçìåíèòü, ÷åì òèï çàìêà? Âîáùåì âñå ýòî î÷åíü íåïîíÿòíî. Òàêîå îùóùåíèå, ÷òî âñå èãðàþùèå òàêèì íååñòåñòâåííûì ñïîñîáîì çíàþò ïî÷åìó îíè ýòî äåëàþò òàê, íî íå ãîâîðÿò èç ïðèíöèïèàëüíûõ ñîîáðàæåíèé!
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| Àâòîð |
Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 20:42 |
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À ÿ îáðàòèë âíèìàíèå, ÷òî ïîäâèæíîñòü ëåâîé ðóêè ïðè çàõâàòå, àíàëîãè÷íîì ïðàâîé (äëÿ ïðàâøè) èçíà÷àëüíî õóæå (îïÿòü æå ïðàâû òå, êòî ãîâîðèò î ïîëîæåíèè êîëåáàíèÿ êèñòè ê íàïðàâëåíèþ ê òî÷êå óäàðà - òî áèøü î ïîëîæåíèè áàðàáàíîâ). Ïîëàãàþ, ýòîò óäàð íå çðÿ îòðàáàòûâàëñÿ ãîäàìè (âåêàìè?) äëÿ ïîëîæåíèÿ ïëàñòèêà, âûâåðíóòîãî âëåâî ïðÿìî íà ïóçå... 8). Äðóãîå äåëî, â ñîâðåìåííîé óñòàíîâêå ýòîãî íåò è âñå ïðèâû÷êè èäóò îò øêîë, îò òîãî, ÷òî íà áàçàõ íîâè÷êè íå ëþáÿò äâèãàòü óñòàíîâêó ïîä ñåáÿ, êàê èì óäîáíî, è ïðèñïîñàáëèâàþòñÿ... è ò.ä. Ñìîòðèòå êîíöåðòû, óðîêè, ñðàâíèâàéòå òåõíèêó ñ òåì, êàê ïîñòàâëåíà óñòàíîâêà... |
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| Àâòîð |
Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 20:47 |
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Ìîñêâà Sonor, Yamaha, Ayotte, Pearl, Sabian, Zildjian, Masterwork, etc.
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Ìíå òðàäèöèîííûé çàìîê âîîáùå íèêàê íå ïîäõîäèò. Óñòàíîâêà òàê óñòðîåíà... | |
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| Àâòîð |
Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 20:49 |
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Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
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íó ïî÷åìó, ïî õýòó ëåâîé ðóêîé íàïðèìåð â òðàäèöèîííîì óäîáíåå âûíîñèòü óäàðû. è ëþáîå ïåðåêðåñòèå ïðè òðàäèöèîííîì óäîáíåå. | |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 20:54 |
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Ìîñêâà Sonor, Yamaha, Ayotte, Pearl, Sabian, Zildjian, Masterwork, etc.
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Îäèíî÷íûå óäàðû ìîæåò è óäîáíåå, íî ñåðèè - íåò êîíå÷íî. Òîò æå Ñòèâ Ñìèò ïåðåõîäèò íà ñèììåòðèþ â ýòîì ñëó÷àå. |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 21:00 |
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Premier Zildjian 
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Íó ÷òî ÷òî, à äæàç è øàôëë ïðè ñèììåòðèè èãðàòü íåóäîáíî. Ïîïðîáóéòå ×àïèíà ïîèãðàòü, òàì çàìåòíî ñðàçó. | |
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"There are only two races on this planet - the intelligent and the stupid."
- John Fowles. |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 21:19 |
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Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
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äà îí ïåðåõîäèò, êîãäà åìó îõîòà. à òàê òðàäèöèîííûì áîëüøå èãðàåò âñå ðàâíî. PS âàùå ÿ ïîíÿë ê ÷åìó Áîáðîâñêèé êëîíèò - Áîçèî òî íå èãðàë òðàäèöèîííûì íèêîãäà
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 21:21 |
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Ìîñêâà áàðàáàíû
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Áîáðîâñêèé ÿ ãîâîðèë ïðî ÷óæóþ ïîñòàíîâêó, êîãäà íå õî÷åòñÿ íè÷¸ ìåíÿòü... à âàùå ÿ ñ òîáîé íå ñîãëàñåí íà ñ÷¸ò íååñòåñòâåííîñòè çàõâàòà... ìîæåò îí ïðîñòî ïðîäâèíóòûé???... |
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| Àâòîð |
Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 21:39 |
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Ìîñêâà Sonor, Yamaha, Ayotte, Pearl, Sabian, Zildjian, Masterwork, etc.
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Ìíå äæàç è øàôôë ëþáûì çàìêîì íåóäîáíî èãðàòü
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| Àâòîð |
Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 22:10 |
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Íà ñàìîì äåëå çàõâàò ýòî ïðèâû÷êà, êòî êàê ïðèâûê è ïðèñïîñîáèëñÿ èãðàòü, òîìó òàê è óäîáíåå. Ìîæíî íàéòè íåìàëî Âåëèêèõ áàðàáàíùèêîâ èç ñòàíà ïðèâåðæåíöåâ òðàäèöèîííîãî çàìêà è íàïðîòèâ ñèììåòðè÷íîãî. À âîîáùå òî ó ìåíÿ åñòü ÄÂÄ ìàñòåðêëàññà Ìàêñà Êëîöà, ãäå îí ãîâîðèò, ÷òî ðàçíèöà òðàäèö. õâàòà îò ñèììåòð. ëèøü â ãðîìêîñòè èçâëåêàåìîãî çâóêà. Ò.å ïðè òðàäèö. çàìêå èçâëåêàåìûé çâóê ìåíåå ãðîìêèé, ÷òî àêòóàëüíî äëÿ èãðû íåàãðåññèâíûõ ñòèëåé ìóçûêè:äæàçà, ôàíêà è ò.ä. À äëÿ ñòèëåé, ãäå òðåáóåòñÿ íàèáîëåå ìàêñèìàëüíûé óðîâåíü èçâëåêàåìîãî çâóêà(ðîê, ìåòàëë) ëó÷øå èñïîëüçîâàòü ñèììåòð. õâàò.òî Òî÷êà çðåíèÿ Ìàñà Êëîöà ìíå êàæåòñüÿ âåñüìà îáîñíîâàííîé. | |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 22:12 |
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Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
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Ìàêñ åùå â ñâîå âðåìÿ ãîâîðèë, ÷òî òðàäèöèîííûé çàõâàò ïðè óñëîâèè åãî ïðàâèëüíîñòè êîìïåíñèðóåò ñëàáîñòü ëåâîé ðóêè. | |
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| Àâòîð |
Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 23:25 |
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Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã Canon 
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ýòî âû âñåì âåðíî ãîâîðèòå.. à ÿ âîò åùå ñ÷èòàþ, ÷òî êëàññè÷åñêèé çàõâàò êðàñèâåå êàê-òî =) |
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The future is not set, there is no fate but what we make for ourselves.
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 23:43 |
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À âîîáùå òî ó ìåíÿ åñòü ÄÂÄ ìàñòåðêëàññà Ìàêñà Êëîöà, ãäå îí ãîâîðèò, ÷òî ðàçíèöà òðàäèö. õâàòà îò ñèììåòð. ëèøü â ãðîìêîñòè èçâëåêàåìîãî çâóêà. Âàùå-òî îí òàì ãîâîðèò, íàñêîëüêî ÿ ïîìíþ, î äîñòîèíñòâàõ è íåäîñòàòêàõ ðàçíûõ âèäîâ çàõâàòà. Îäíî èç äîñòîèíñòâ êëàññèêè - òîíêèé ïàëüöåâîé êîíòðîëü, íî åñòü è íåäîñòàòêè. Èç ïðåèìóùåñòâ íåìåöêîãî õâàòà - Îòëè÷íûé íèæíèé óäàð, íî èì ñëîæíåå èãðàòü. Ôðàíöóçñêèé õâàò - ñêîðîñòíîé, íî êàê òàêîâîãî íèæíåãî óäàðà òàì íåò. À íà óñòàíîâêå íå âñåãäà èñïîëüçóåòñÿ ñèììåòðèÿ.  îäíîé ðóêå german â äðóãîé french - òîæå âàðèàíò íåñèììåòðèè. Ýòèì âàðèàíòîì íå òàê ðåäêî ïîëüçóþòñÿ. |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 23:44 |
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Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
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äà, êñòàòè, ãîâîðÿò òåì êòî èãðàåò òðàäèöèîííûì áîëüøå äàþò | |
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| Àâòîð |
Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 23:49 |
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Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
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ïðèòîì, è german åñòåñòâåííûì îáðàçîì ðàçâîðà÷èâàåòñÿ ïî èäåå, êîãäà ñ ìàëîãî áàðàáàíà â ñòîðîíû óõîäèøü. | |
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| Àâòîð |
Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 05.11.2005 23:54 |
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Äà íå âñåãäà. Ìîæíî è ãåðìàíîì è ïî ñòîðîíàì èãðàòü. Íî íå âñåãäà íóæíî. Íå ìåöêèé çàõâàò èçâëåêàåò èç áàðàáàíà ìíîãî áàñîâ. Íà æåëåçå ýòîãî íå âñåãäà íàäî. | |
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| Àâòîð |
Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 06.11.2005 00:16 |
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Ìîñêâà Sonor, Sabian, Orion Strondo, Stagg, Tama HP-35 Camco 
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Ìîæåò ìíå ïðîñòî ïîêàçàëîñü, íî åñëè èãðàòü ñ òðàäèöèîííûì çàìêîì, òî ïîëó÷àåòñÿ èãðàòü áûñòðåå. Òî åñòü, íàïðèìåð, ñäåëàòü ïîäðÿä íåñêîëüêî óäàðîâ 32-ìè íà 120 bpm ëåã÷å â êëàññèêå, ÷åì â ñèììåòðèè, èìõî. | |
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-Ðûáà ñèäåëà íà äåðåâå.
-À ðàçâå ðûáû ñèäÿò íà äåðåâüÿõ? -Íó... Ýòî áûëà ñóìàñøåäøàÿ ðûáà... "ÒÀÉ!" - http://www.myspace.com/taigroup |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 06.11.2005 00:20 |
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2Axel, äà áûñòðåå, íî òîëüêî êîðîòêèå ñåðèè. Ñàìûé áûñòðûé õâàò ôðàíöóçñêèé. | |
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| Àâòîð |
Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 06.11.2005 00:22 |
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Íàðîä, ïðîñâåòèòå ò¸ìíîãî! Ôðàíöóçñêèé - ýòî ëèòàâðîâûé, à íåìåöêèé - ëàäîíüþ âíèç? | |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 06.11.2005 00:26 |
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Íó äà, ÷òî-òî òèïà òîãî... À òî÷íåå â íåìåöêîì êèñòü ðàñïîëîæåíà ãîðèçîíòàëüíî, à â ôðàíöóçñêîì âåðòèêàëüíî. | |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 06.11.2005 01:17 |
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Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
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>Äà íå âñåãäà. Ìîæíî è ãåðìàíîì è ïî ñòîðîíàì èãðàòü. german íå ïåðåñòàåò áûòü german îò òîãî, ÷òî ðàçâåðíóò - åñòü åùå òàêîé âàæíîå îòëè÷èå French è german, êàê ïîëîæåíèå óêàçàòåëüíîãî ïàëüöà. à ðóêó êîãäà âïðàâî âûíîñèøü, êèñòü åñòåñòâåííûì îáðàçîì ïîâîðà÷èâàåòñÿ íàðóæó. ìîæíî êîíå÷íî è íå ïîâîðà÷èâàòü, íî íàïðèìåð â ÷àéíó ñïðàâà èíà÷å òî÷íî óæå íå ñûãðàòü. ÿ íà ñàìîì äåëå ýòîò ìîìåíò ó áàðàáàíùèêà Æàêà Ëóñüå ïîäñìîòðåë, ó íåãî ïîñòîÿííî âðàùåíèå òàêîå ïðîèñõîäèò - ê öåíòðó ëàäîíü âíèç ñìîòðèò; èäåò â ñòîðîíó - ðàçâîðà÷èâàåòñÿ â ñòîðîíó ïåðïåíäèêóëÿðíîãî ïîëîæåíèÿ. è Ãýää êàæåòñÿ ÷òî-òî â ýòîì äóõå ïîêàçûâàåò (íî òî÷íî íå óâåðåí). |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 06.11.2005 01:26 |
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Äà ÿ íå ñïîðþ. Õîòÿ íà òîì æå íàïîëüíîì òîìå ãåðìàí èñïîëüçîâàòü ìîæíî. | |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 06.11.2005 01:51 |
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Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
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íà òîìå êîíå÷íî ìîæíî :agree: ÿ è â ðàéä òàê èãðàþ â îáùåì-òî | |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 07.11.2005 13:33 |
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Êîãäà ÿ ïî èíåðöèè èãðàþ òðàäèöèåé...ìîÿ ðóêà ðóêîâîäñòâóåöî òåì ÷òî ÿ èãðàþ äæàç!... â ýòîì åñòü íåêèé ïñèõîëîãè÷åñêèé ìîìåíò íà ñàìîì äåëå! Âåêë - èãðàåò è ñèìåòðèåé...îí ïîêàçûâàë êîãäà íóæåí ñèëüíûé óäàð, òðàäèöåé îí áåðåò ïàëêó áëèçêî ê êðàþ, ïîòîìó ÷òî òîëüêî òàê ìîæíî ìîùíî ïðîáèòü... åñëè ñîâñåì êóÿ÷èò òî îí è ñèìåòðèè íå ÷óðàåöî...òàê ÷òî...õç... ýòà òåõíèêà îòîéäåò ñàìà ÷åðåç ëåò 30...ìíå òàê êàæåöî! |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 07.11.2005 15:00 |
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ìåíÿ òàêàÿ ìûñëü èíîãäà ïîñåùàåò - ÷òî åñëè ìíîãèå èçó÷àþò òðàäèöèîííûé õâàò òîëüêî ïîòîìó ÷òî îí ñëîæíåå? âû íà ìèíóòêó ïðåäñòàâüòå ôèëîñîôèþ íîâè÷êà: â ñàìîì íà÷àëå îáó÷åíèÿ ÷åë âäðóã óçíàåò, ÷òî åñòü 2 ïðèíöèïèàëüíî ðàçíûõ õâàòà, ïðè÷åì îäèí èç íèõ âðîäå êàê ñëîæíåå, ò. ê. èñïîëüçóåòñÿ äæàçîâûìè ìàñòåðàìè, è âîîáùå âåñü èç ñåáÿ òàêîé... ñòðîãî-ïîíòîâûé è òóò äàëüøå ñðàáàòûâàåò ñòåðåîòèï - "ðàç îíè òàê èãðàþò, çíà÷èò â ýòîì ÷òî-òî åñòü"? "ìîæåò ìíå èäòè òóäà, ãäå òðóäíåå, â èòîãå ÿ äîáüþñü áîëüøåãî"? è òóò åñëè ó ÷åëîâåêà õàðàêòåð, îí ñïîñîáåí ñåáÿ ïðèíóäèòü è äàæå ðîê ñåáÿ òàê èãðàòü, õîòÿ, ïî èäåå, â ðîêå òðàäèöèîííàÿ ïîñòàíîâêà - ýòî áðåä. ÿðêèé ïðèìåð - Ëàíã, ó êîòîðîãî â õàðàêòåðå ÷åòêî ïðîñëåæèâàåòñÿ óïðÿìûå, ñïîðòèâíî-ñîñòÿçàòåëüíûå íàêëîííîñòè (àíòèïîä Ëàíãà - Ãýää, ýòîìó ëèøü áû ìóçûêàëüíåé çâó÷àëî, à êàê ìíîãî îí ïðè ýòîì ñûãðàåò íîò ñîâåðøåííî íåâàæíî - ìíå, êñòàòè, òàêîé ïîäõîä î÷åíü èìïîíèðóåò, íî ïîêà ÿ ê ñâîåìó ñòûäó â ñâîèõ çàíÿòèÿõ áîëüøå "êîïèðóþ" Ëàíãà ÷åì Ãýääà  .. â îáùåì ìíå êàæåòñÿ, ÷òî ñåãîäíÿ õâàò îïðåäåëÿåòñÿ ñêëàäîì õàðàêòåðà è èçíà÷àëüíîé ïðèâåðåæåííîñòüþ ê òîìó èëè èíîìó âèäó.. ðåàëüíîé íåîáõîäèìîñòè â òðàäèöèîííîé ïîñòàíîâêå íåò, à èãðàòü äæàçîâûå, äèíàìè÷íî áîãàòûå è ðàçíîîáðàçíûå âåùè ìîæíî è â ñèììåòðèè (×åìáåðñ, Êîáýì, Áîççèî)÷òî äî ìåíÿ ìíå áîëüøå íðàâèòñÿ ñèììåòðèÿ.. ïðè÷åì íå òîëüêî â õâàòå íî è â ðàññòàíîâêå áàðàáàíîâ - ýòî ôèëîñîôèÿ, ïî áîëüøîìó ñ÷åòó.. íðàâèòñÿ èãðàòü 16-å íà òîìàõ "ïî äóãå" - "ñëåâà-íàïðàâî-ïîêà-íå-óïðåìñÿ,ïàðàäèääë, ñïðàâà-íàëåâî, ïàðàäèäë,è ò.ï." - ïîèãðàéòå òàê ìèíóò ñ 20-40, ïî÷òè êàê ìåäèòàöèÿ |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 07.11.2005 15:12 |
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ìîñêâà drums 
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À åù¸ â ñèììåòðèè êàê-òî óäîáíåé èãðàþòñÿ ñåðèè â êðýøè(ëåâûé ñ ëåâîé ðóêè, ïðàâûé,ñîîòâåòñòâåííî,ñ ïðàâîé.)Åñëè ÷åñòíî,íå ïðåäñòàâëÿþ,êàê ýòî ñäåëàòü â "òðàäèöèè",÷òîá è òåìï,è çâóê íå ïîòåðÿëèñü. | |
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ÂÅ×ÅÐÎÌ - ÍÅÓÑÛÏÍÛÉ, ÓÒÐÎÌ - ÁÅÑÏÐÎÁÓÄÍÛÉ (Ñ)
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 07.11.2005 15:15 |
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êàê âåêë ýòî äåëàåò ...òàê è äåëàé
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 07.11.2005 15:16 |
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êñòàòè, ÿ, êàæåòñÿ, íà÷èíàþ ïîíèìàòü ñòèëü Ãýääà.. èëè ïî êðàéíåé ìåðå òó åãî èãðó, âìåñòå ñ Êëýïòîíîì, ò.ê. ñ îñòàëüíûì åãî òâîð÷åñòâîì íå çíàêîì. Îí óìååò êà÷åñòâåííî îáîãàùàòü îáùåå çâó÷àíèå ãðóïïû, îðêåñòðà, à íå "çàêðàøèâàòü" åãî íåíóæíûìè ñîëî.. ò.å. äóìàåò â ïåðâóþ î÷åðåäü êàòåãîðèÿìè ãðóïïû, à íå ñåáÿ ñàìîãî, ñëûøèò êàðòèíó ñî ñòîðîíû - âîò ýòî è êðóòî â íåì êàê â ìóçûêàíòå.. äëÿ íåãî ïàóçû òàêæå âàæíû êàê è íîòû (à ìîæåò è âàæíåå äàæå), óìååò êðàñèâî îòõîäèòü íà âòîðîé ïëàí, íå òåðÿÿ "êà÷à"... êàê ñêóëüïòîð, êîòîðûé îòñåêàåò âñå ëèøíåå îò êóñêà êàìíÿ (÷èòàé: ìíîæåñòâî íîò íå ê ìåñòó) è îñòàâëÿåò òîëüêî ñàìóþ ñóòü - òî ÷òî íå ñûãðàòü óæå ïðîñòî íåâîçìîæíî.. áàðàáàíùèê-ìèíèìàëèñò - ìèíèìóì íîò ïðè ìàêñèìóìå ñìûñëà | |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 07.11.2005 17:43 |
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íó è ïîñò! àñèëèë ..íî ëóòøåï íèàñèëèâàë |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 07.11.2005 19:04 |
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Ìîñêâà îòáîéíûé ìîëîòîê 
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Çàòî îäèí èç íåìíîãèõ ïî òåìå... 
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Êîãäà â ðóêàõ ìîëîòîê, âñå âîêðóã êàæóòñÿ ãâîçäÿìè...
http://onthemoon.ru |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 07.11.2005 19:08 |
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ïî êàêîé íàêóé òåìå???íàîáîðîò ...êóé çíà÷èò ê ÷åìó... íå ïðèøåé ê ïýçäå ðóêàôô |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 07.11.2005 19:13 |
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Ìîñêâà îòáîéíûé ìîëîòîê
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À ÿ ãðþ - ïî òåìå... è ôñå òóò | |
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Êîãäà â ðóêàõ ìîëîòîê, âñå âîêðóã êàæóòñÿ ãâîçäÿìè...
http://onthemoon.ru |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 07.11.2005 22:06 |
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Premier Zildjian
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Êóïèë òóò ñ Êëýïòîíîì DVD, Ñòèâ Ãýää, Äæî Ñýìïë...Íå ïîíÿë, ÷òî òàì äåëàåò Êëýïòîí ñ íèìè âìåñòå, ïî ÷åñòíàêó. | |
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"There are only two races on this planet - the intelligent and the stupid."
- John Fowles. |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 07.11.2005 22:55 |
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íàñ÷åò çàõâàòîâ è òîãî, ÷òî ïðè òðàäèöèîííîì ëåâàÿ ðóêà èãðàåò "ñëàáåå"...ïîñìîòðèòå âèäåî Jeff Queen...ëåâàÿ òðàäèöèîííûì, à ïî äèíàìèêå ñîâåðøåííî íå îòëè÷àåòñÿ îò ïðàâîé... | |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 11.11.2005 22:59 |
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Óýêë, êñòàòè, óæå íå èãðàåò çà êîíåö ïàëêè! Òðàäèöèîííûé çàìîê â ðîêå õîðîøî èä¸ò â ïðîñòîé ìóçûêå, âðîäå áðèò-ïîïà, îí î÷åíü ýôôåêòíî ñìîòðèòñÿ! Íî ëîãè÷íåå, êàê ìíå êàæåòñÿ, èãðàòü ñèììåòðè÷íûì. Ìû æå íå îäåâàåì íà íîãè ðàçíûå áîòèíêè! |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 12.11.2005 23:02 |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî. Ýòî ïðî éýáëüþ? | |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 12.11.2005 23:14 |
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ß çà ñèììåòðè÷íóþ ïîñòàíîâêó - îíà ìîùíåå (Ëýíã èç âñåõ, êîãî âèäåë-ñëûøàë - èñêëþ÷åíèå). ×ýìáåðñ è Áîççèî - ëó÷øèå ïðèìåðû èãðû ìåëî÷åé ñèììåòðèåé. Ê òîìó æå ÿ âñå àêöåíòû ëåâîé íà ìàëîì èãðàþ ðèì-øîòàìè. Íî çàíèìàòüñÿ òðàäèöèîííûì çàìêîì íàäî. Ýòî Ôèëëèïñ íà Zildjian Day â ïðîøëîì ãîäó ãîâîðèë è ïîêàçûâàë. |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 12.11.2005 23:22 |
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Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
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Dmitry: è ýòî êñòàòè î÷åíü ïëîõî, ïîòîìó ÷òî íîãè íà ñàìîì äåëå ðàçíûå - âñåãäà â áîòèíêàõ îäíîãî ðàçìåðà îäèí íà êàêîé-òî íîãå âèäèò õîðîøî, à âòîðîé èëè ÷óòîê ìàë, èëè ÷óòîê âåëèêîâàò
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 13.11.2005 01:10 |
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èìõî âîò òóò äîñòàòî÷íî èíòåðåñíî âñå ðàñïèñàíî, à òàê ðåøàþùèì âñå ðàâíî îñòàåòñÿ ëè÷íîå ïðåäïî÷òåíèå è íè÷åãî áîëüøå. by Rick Beckham (âçÿòî ñ åãî ñàéòà,ñîáñíî): My junior high band director, Mr. Frank Adams, taught me matched grip in his beginner band. I was aware of traditional grip, watching set drummers on TV every so often, but didn't really give a hoot about one grip or the other. Eventually I started competing with other drummers, auditioning for spots in regional or state wide concert bands. The auditions usually consisted of sight reading, opening and closing a rudiment or two, and sometimes playing a prepared piece of music, either a solo of the performer's choice or a selection picked by the judges and sent to the performers in advance. For sight reading I noticed a traditional grip player's concentration was divided three ways, reading the rhythms and dynamics, maintaining a firm and controlled grip with the left hand, and playing with a balanced sound. With matched grip I could concentrate almost entirely on reading the selection. Opening and closing rudiments seemed to cause physical pain for the traditional grip players, particularly in the left hand. Breaking down rudiments with matched grip never caused me any pain. At worst a mild discomfort ensued when controlling the evenness of the acceleration/deceleration near and at my fastest speeds. I even noticed differences between myself and my traditional grip peers with the prepared selection part of the audition. I played with more dynamic range between extreme volume levels. In 1976 I read an article in 'The Ludwig Drummer' magazine, written by Mitch Markovitch, entitled "Matched Grip: Riding the Wave of the Future". This article shed light on the difficulties inherent with traditional grip. The major point the article made was that matched grip uses thirteen muscles for an up/down stroke, whereas the traditional left uses four. Thirteen muscles versus four. That's quite a difference considering the hand that will use just four muscles is the 'weak' hand for the majority of the population. Mitch's article also compared the traditional grip with learning to walk evenly with a combat boot on one foot and a tennis shoe on the other. It can be done, but valuable practice time is spent acquiring the talent. Matched grip starts with the premise that if both hands are the same a more balanced sound will be the result. Although I learned matched first I also trained several seasons with traditional grip, and continue to practice traditional grip. I'd like to expand on Mitch's article with observations I've made contrasting the two grips. When I train with matched grip the major muscle that develops is the tricep muscle. With traditional grip the major muscle in the left hand that develops is the bicep. The tricep is a push muscle and the bicep is a pull muscle. Push muscles are stronger than pull muscles (try pushing a car and then pull it). Matched grip allows more contact between the hand and the stick. The stick is gripped in much the same way one grips a barbell, a football, or even someone's hand when you shake hands. This grip is natural and quite strong, and the strength of the grip can be increased with exercise. The top of the hand is above the stick which allows a simple and powerful way to propel the stick. Simple because it is an up/down motion; powerful because the entire arm pushes the stick toward the playing surface. Matched grip allows the wrist to bend naturally at the wrist joint which helps relieve arm tension. The middle, ring, and pinky fingers curl under the stick to help maintain a strong grip allowing better control (the fingers can tighten or relax). A better fulcrum is achieved with matched grip because the middle finger is under the stick near the balance point. Pivoting the stick is actually aided by the middle, ring, and pinky fingers as they push the back of the stick toward the palm forcing the bead downward. All components of the arm work together for a downstroke. The arm pushes the stick down, the wrist bends right before impact to add additional power and to help relieve arm tension, and the fingers tighten or relax, depending on the situation, to guide/control the stick. The grip used by the left hand of traditional grip is unnatural; it is not a grip developed by everyday activities. Thus the beginner will enter uncharted motor skill territory with traditional grip. Muscle differences and unfamiliar grip means a beginner's left hand will require more attention. Even seasoned traditional grip players admit spending extra time on the left hand. The right hand will never reach full potential due to the left constantly trailing behind in training. The traditional grip left hand has two motions to propel the stick: the up/down motion used for rolls and diddles, and the turning motion sometimes used for singles and accents. The turning motion resembles the motion of the arm when one turns a doorknob. The muscles used for the turning motion are very weak, and the player must constantly adjust while switching from one motion to the other. Most of the left hand is under the stick, the back of the hand lends no power to the downstroke. There is very little wrist movement to alleviate wrist and arm tension. Little wrist movement also implies less arm flexibility; the arm motions are stiff which increases upper arm tension. There is less finger contact on the stick in the left hand. The fingers grip the stick but play a minimal role in controlling the stick. The stick rests on the side of the ring finger close to the bone and knuckle, which will absorb a portion of the impact when striking the playing surface. This can cause some degree of pain, and makes for a less than adequate pivot. The arm, wrist, and fingers of a left hand downstroke does not move as fluidly, in conjunction with one another, as a downstroke of matched grip. From a visual standpoint there is no question that traditional looks better. I believe this has to do with the visual contrast between the left and right hands. Matched grip looks boring, but in my opinion is more functional for power and control. Matched grip is easier for beginners to learn for two reasons: strengths and flaws between each hand can be compared, and concentration is not divided with two styles. A matched grip player will need to strengthen the weak hand, but he/she is not handicapped by muscle or motor skill differences. Players should be versatile enough to use both grips, but traditional grip should be taught only after a student has partially mastered matched. The major reason: it is harder to retrain the left arm to be flexible, to bend at the wrist, than it is to play with locked joints having already learned flexibility. Matched grip should be used whenever a player wants to maximize power and control. |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 13.11.2005 01:29 |
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åùå 1 çàìåòêà èíòåðåñíàÿ | |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 13.11.2005 02:15 |
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Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
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òîëüêî ó÷òèòå, ÷òî Ðèê Áýêåì - ìàðøåâûé áàðàáàíùèê, à íå drumset player. â ìàðøåâîé ìóçûêå òðàäèöèîííûé çàõâàò äîëãîå âðåìÿ áûë íåîáõîäèìîñòüþ, ïîêà íå ñäåëàëè ñïåöèàëüíûå ïðèñïîñîáëåíèÿ, êîòîðûå ïîçâîëÿþò íåñòè áàðàáàí ïàðàëëåëüíî çåìëå. | |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 13.11.2005 02:24 |
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íî ïðè âñåì ïðè òîì, îí âûñêàçûâàåòñÿ â ïîëüçó ñèìììåòðè÷íîãî à òàêæå ïðîñòî òàì ïðèâåäåíî äîñòàòî÷íî àãðóìåíòîâ, ÷òîáû âçâåñèòü âñå) | |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 13.11.2005 12:07 |
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Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
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äà, íî êàê âèäèøü, ñàì îí òîæå çàíèìàåòñÿ òðàäèöèîííûì çàõâàòîì
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 13.11.2005 12:39 |
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èç òåõ âèäåî ÷òî ÿ âèäåë, íå âñåãäà, íàîáîðò äàæå áîëüøå ñèììåòðè÷íûì) ëè÷íî ÿ èñïîëüçóþ òðàä èëè ñèììåòðè÷íûé - â çàâèñèìîñòè îò òîãî,÷òî èãðàþ, êàê è, íàâåðíîå, áîëüøèíñòâî. |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 13.11.2005 12:44 |
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Âîò íàïðèìåð: http://rbeckham.xdhosting.com/Ricks_Solo_8_27_2004.wmv http://rbeckham.xdhosting.com/interphase2.mpg http://rbeckham.xdhosting.com/xlr8.mpg |
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Òåìà: Re: Òðàäèöèîííî èëè ñèììåòðè÷íî.
Âðåìÿ: 13.11.2005 14:29 |
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Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
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à ÿ òîêà ñèììåòðè÷íûé... òðàäèöèîííûì íå óìåþ âîîáùå
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